Inquisitor Newsletter #18 - June 12th, 2010
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The newsletter is a summary of the conclusions of the officer meetings and upcoming changes. If you want the latest info about the guild, the rules and the regulations, be sure to read the newsletter every time it comes out.
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Guild Status

Officer Change
Since the last time Shalandria has joined the ranks of the officers to fill the gap that Angin left. We are still looking for more to fill the ranks of the officers, and if you have an officer hiding inside you, we would like to hear from you. If you are interested and want to contribute to the running of the guild send Gediablo a PM, and we take it from there.

Member status
Our membersituation has stabilized on most fronts since our last newsletter, the period with people drifting off to inactives have ended, but it will still be something that the officers will be aware off. Our situation with healers have moderately improved, but it is still an issue that we are working on, and we would like to have 1-2 more holy paladins joining our ranks. Once again we would like to ask our members to assist with getting applications for the guild. Our lineup is still not complete, and to ensure raiding for everyone here we need to fill the holes. We are nearing the end of the expansion and combined with the summer it has meant that we the past weeks have had very few applicants. Therefore if you think you know a suitable applicant, or encounter one while pugging, we would very much like if you talked to them about making an application. We would rather have more applications we decline, than no applications to discuss.

Ventrilo
During the time since the last newsletter we were testing a new VT server, and a mumble server that Fijay was kind enough to host. After some weeks of testing both alternatives, and the debate in the guild, it was decided to continue using VT. The main reason behind this decision was that the issues some people had with Mumble at this time, didn’t outweigh the cost of paying for a VT server. Mumble is still at beta lvl, and the officers decided to reevaluate it when it’s time to pay for VT again to, to see if the issues that we had with currently might have been fixed. On a further note the officers would like to thank those who have contributed in regard to paying for the VT server we are using.

Guild bank
The guildbank is still buying reagents and such to provide buffs for the 10 and 25 man raids we have. Furthermore it has earned quite a bit of gold over the last months from our raids in ICC, as usual we are planning on a handout from the guildbank, so that the members who has helped the guildbank earn this gold will be rewarded. This handout is planned to take place when patch 3.3.5 with Ruby Sanctum is released, and as usual the amount paid out to members will be based on the attendance since the last handout.

IRL #6
We have started planning for the next IRL party, which will take place in Malmö, where Sharde and Vyshe have agreed to act as hosts. The date has not been finally set yet, but it will be sometime around late august as it seems now. Once we have more specific information we will post more about it.

Changes to the bidding system
Over the past months the officers have spent quite a lot of time on the officermeetings debating the bidding system. The discussions have resulted in a decision to make the first major change to the rules of the guild in a long time. The officers are aware that this will and should result in a lot of discussion in the guild, but the officers have felt that the change was needed for the benefit of the guild. WoW and times changes and Inquisitor will adapt when it’s needed to meet these changes. We hope that our members will see these changes as an improvement like the officers do, and will assist us in making them as good and well integrated in the guild as possible.

The new rules for biddings can be found in the Rulebook.

The officers will monitor these changes to make sure they are working as we intend them to, and might make minor adjustments to the rules if we find this is not the case. In regard to this we would like our members to give it some consideration, and let the officers know if they think there is a problem with how the rules work.


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Raid Status

Accomplishments
Since the last newsletter we have progressed from killing LK in ICC, to clearing 11/12 bosses on HC, leaving only the LK standing for us in ICC 25 HC. The progress was fast on most bosses, but our unstable healing lineup and Ravencrest situation meant that it took a bit longer than expected to get to where we are now. It is the hope of the officers that we can stabilize the situation fast, and push onwards with the progress.

Summerraiding
Summer is upon us once again, and it is our experience that this will affect our raiding to some degree. We have already seen this effect on our Sunday raids, and it will only become more apparent in the next weeks/months. Therefore the officers would like our members to update the afk-thread as fast as possible, with their plans for being away during the summer period. Doing this would allow us to plan ahead, and see if there are some weeks where we should step down raiding to fewer raid days and ask some raidinactives to step in for a period, or entirely cancel some weeks of raiding in advance if we can see we won’t have a lineup.

Raidtimes
As mentioned above we have cancelled the last 3 Sunday raids, and we have had a hard time setting a good lineup for most other Sundays. That combined with the current problems with the server running very unstable, means that we have a hard time progressing with the time we currently have in ICC. This has meant that the officers once again discussed if our raidtimes are the right once, in particular the Sunday raid that we have a harder time getting enough people signed for. There is 3 ways of fixing the problem. The first is that our current members start to raid more on Sunday, the second is to invite more members and the third is to see if another raid day is better. We discussed the raidtimes in the start of the expansion, and the officers feel that it’s time to do so again with the current issues, and also due to the fact that we have changed so much of our lineup since then. Therefore we have made a thread where we would like everyone to cast their vote on the day and time on which raiddays suits them best. It is not guaranteed that the day will be changed, but we would like to see if a change to the day and time would make it easier for our members to join the 3rd raid. If we can’t find another day that our members will join, then we will have to look further into recruiting, which also means more people on reserve the other raiddays.

DKP WotLK to Cataclysm
For transition to Cataclysm we are going to go with the same system as when we went from TBC to WotLK. The rules were described in Newsletter #11 and sounds like this:
Everyone will get 10 DKP for each attendance % point the last 3 month of raiding and you cant get more than your current dkp in TBC. So if I have 200 dkp and 70% attendance I would get 70*10=700, which is reduced to 200 dkp since I can't get more dkp than I already had (if I had above 700 dkp I would get 700 instead).

Raid schedule
Our main focus the past months have been on ICC, and VoA has once again been removed from our raidschedule.
Our focus the rest of the expansion will still be ICC, and once it is released Ruby Sanctum aswell. We expect to be able to finish the remaining hardmodes before the expansion, and once we have we should have time to finish achievements in ICC for those who want.
We will continue to try and keep the Guild Information tab in game updated after each raid if any changes arise.

See you all in game
//The Officer Team

About the DKP change, isn't major changes like this normally put up for discussion between everyone in the guid? I at least the member the last major change with the coming of TDC, where the thing about dkp cap came, if I'm not mistaken

As I see this it gives a punishment for those that raid a lot and are able to fill more than one role. Also it cripples the guild when a player of any role stops raiding.

Lets use the angry dwarf as an exsampel Zahn having to see his dkp being wasted off since he cant bid on tank items, on the other hand if a tank that raids half the amount of Zahn are bidding on an item, then they get it for minimum?

Also and that the MT have just stops kinda proves this point, but the chance of this rule crippling the guild when/if a key player like a maintank stops raiding will be way bigger than it is today. Atm its a huge loss if a maintank stops raiding, but with this rule the loss will become that much bigger.
because the gap between a MT warrior and a dps warrior will be that much greater.
Same sitiuation with healers, with this rule a dude like e.g. Vyshe wouldn't have nearly the same amount of healing gear as he has now, being able to fill that role as well as the dps role.

As I read this rule, it does nothing but favor those that raid the minimum amount, acts like a safety net for those that didn't understand how the old system worked.

I do not see this new rule as a good improvement.
Yes the current DKP system isn't bulletproof, but this change I just see hurting the guild. It would work in a perfect world, but then I like the old idea of "item diktatorship" a lot better. With the officer group handing out items to the players they find benefiting the guild the most.

/doki

I must say I kinda agree with doki I can see the downside of it with the mt stopping and all, i wonder what your reason was to make that change ?

I have to say first of all that I feel it's somewhat of a failure for our guild as a whole to need to specify MS over OS. It has always been understood (imho) that you consider the good of the guild(tm) and your fellow guildies to some extent, while still being free to pursue OS. I can't remember ever losing a MS item that was a real substantial upgrade (not just a sidegrade) to an OS bid myself, but I do remember multiple times where I have been initially outbid by an OS bidder who then passed for me. Afaik this has all been discussed before, so I can only assume you wouldn't go through with this unless you felt it was necessary. That is not the biggest problem I have with it though.

I agree with Doki about it messing up OS gearing, and I'm also afraid that it will promote being cheap. Having a DKP system at all means that there will always be some small amount of greed involved. Nobody wants to pay twice what their "competitors" paid for the same item. One tactic is to wait a while until the item you want becomes cheaper. This change will make waiting the "best" strategy, since once the big spending MSers have gotten the item, it's a garantueed price of 30 dkp (or 31 if there are more ppl involved) and at that rate the "cheap" MSers dkp will last forever, and OSers won't stand a chance. I'm not saying we can't clear instances because some wait with upgrading their gear, hell, with a constant influx of trials we already have an uneven level of gearing, but the whole point of a DKP system is for people to WANT to spend it on upgrades. Just like our governments wants us to spend our money buying crap;)

Another aspect of this change feels important to me: Hopefully most people keep some sort of list of what gear they are aiming for and don't just bid on the first item that looks slightly better than what they already have, but sometimes you throw in a low bid on an optional piece just in case noone else wants it. With a split bidding like we have now, how will you know that someone needs it for OS so you can think again and decide to pass or not?

As I see it, having good gear isn't that important to succeed in raiding. It's an important reward for succeeding in raiding. LK heroic has already been killed many many times by people in worse gear than we have now, and with less than our current 20% zone buff. Gear is important for showing your dedication and to feel that you are contributing to the guild's progress. Simply having legendarys in the guild makes you feel some really nerdy sense of pride because it tells a story of hard work and accomplishment as a team. Gear is a social thing and we're a pretty social guild, so we should have social loot rules.

Good night, and thank you for reading. (as if)
TL;DR: love>loot

I think we need to Clarify something here.

It seem's people believe Fijay stopped for the loot prio change, but this is not the case. He was one of those that really wanted to make the change. The reason for him stopping is something completely different and you will have to ask him for it yourselves.

I love the MS > OS change. I have myself been in the situation not to long ago where i wanted tier items and ppl going in pretty high on them just for OS and not wanting to pass. With the old rules, this was pure suck but QQ "fair". But this is a good change. I dont have to spend x3 the DKP on something that f.ex. Sharde payed 30 dkp for just cuz someone has way to much dkp and dont know what to do with it, so they start going all out on OS gear. Fuck me if i think thats ok.

Good decision imo.

I agree on everything that the owl said.

But with the current system it cripples everyone all the time, not just when they quit. Each member in the guild has a main role to do. And hopefully if you got a decent enough guild, that's what the person should be doing 98% of the time. But by allowing people to buy offspecc before someone's mainspecc you not only make that persons less good than he actually could be when he does his job, you are also telling that person that "well we don't think your job is more worth than someone's offspecc".


But that position he have put himself in. No offence to zahn but there's been several dps item he could have bought that for some reason he hasn't. And both you and I know that before that happens, that tank is probably put on inactive or given a serious talk with the officers.



If I read you correctly, we should then gear our players worse than what we have the option to do, in case they quit? Centrius is a perfect example here. The Lich King heroic fight is a fight that you basically need to min/max (Of course the need of this has diminished a bit with the % buff every month, but hopefully this dkp change ain't only for this instance only and will affect the future instances also) And by allowing someone to pick up Tier parts for offspecc in front of his mainspecc doesn't do much good when we are on the Lich King, since I expect people to play, as I said earlier, their mainspecc 98% of the time. The other 2% should only really be on farmbosses. No guild in their right mind should use peoples offspecc for progress bosses. Then something has gone wrong, people have to low attendance or you invited people with the wrong specc.

But this doesn't seem to be the issue. As vyshe himself already says in his post. Mostly people pass if they buy something for their offspecc if they notice someone needs something for their mainspecc. So if this is true and vyshe bids on a healing item and a healer wants it, he gladly passes it, right? so how would he gain any more gear than now?


What I'm trying to say is that I don't understand how anyone can see it as a bad thing that we actually improve the role the role people play the most, first. And if we uses peoples offspecc that much, maybe we should consider inviting someone for that specific role or poke the people that are slacking in that role.

The biggest part what I like about this MS OS thing is that I don't have to feel like I'm stealing dkp from everyone all the time. I like to buy offspecc items from time to time. and by having it on the same bid I sometimes boost the costs for some peoples mainspecc which annoys the heck out of me. My offspecc shouldn't cause someone's mainspecc to be more expensive. this new rule solves this since they gets split up (mainbid, offbid). And I don't understand what you mean with free to pursue os, has this changed? you are still free to buy any os item you want. This would only be a problem if you want to buy peoples mainspecc item for os, which you already said doesn't happen for you anyway.


That's good , but there's another 30+ people in the guild, I think at least a couple have felt that this has happened.


but what does that change from today's bidding? we still have people waiting to like last with items. and even if someone did manage to buy for offspecc they, as you said yourself, you gladly pass for someone's mainspecc. Which usually gives them the price 30dkp. OS have the exactly same chance before as now. And there's less room for error since all the player doesn't have to be involved around where to pass and keep track of who is what persons mainspecc etc etc.


and that haven't changed. If someone wants an item first for their mainspecc they will bid. if someone wants to wait they do. But it can never be right that someone gets it for offspecc before a mainspecc. A mainspecc will always use it more than the offspecc, since it's his offspecc (duh) so I don't see where the problem is. Or as I said before, if the offspecc manage to have use of the item so much, maybe we should consider inviting another one of that specc, or maybe even change his off to main.



You already decided that you only want the item if none else wants it. otherwise you wouldn't bid so low. so why not just wait until the offspecc bid is over and if then none wants it you can say you take it. it would also save offspecc dkp since It feels weird to boost the offspecc cost when I don't really want it anyway.


Yep, so gear is a way of the guild to show your appreciated, right? How would you feel then if someone took a mainspecc item from you for their offspecc? I know I would feel pretty worthless since someone's bag gear is more important than my role I play 98% of the time.

I haven't seen ppl bidding high on OS items after Acee left the guild. For example, if you bid for MS like 50 dkp, and Zahn bids 55 for OS, it might be 245->277 upgrade for zahn's tank gear, and only 5-10 dps upgrade for you (why would you have bidded only 50 dkp otherwise). In that case we probably would benefit more if Zahn gets it since he tanks pretty often. And if you only had that 50dkp and rly want the item, zahn would understand to pass it. I don't see any problem in the old system.

Thats why you always last on dmg meter and no one likes u! And i dont mean *high* but 60 dkp for something i could get for 30 dkp is still 50% more. And im talking about 245 gear up to 265, not 277. Gief 277 tiers for 50 dkp!

So what your saying is that im not alowed to save my dkp to get a huge upgrade but need 2 overbid a offspec bid? Yes that makes sence. Ill just keep my lvl 200 trinket and hope i might get a good green one in Cata. Happy?

I don't like to talk about others but I don't know how I would otherwise do it to prove you wrong. So I'm taking my chances to be seen as unfriendly. Yes Zahn tanks pretty much, but that he would always pass a tank loot has been proven at least 2 times before that it's not correct.

One time it was in ICC before you killed Lich King. This was before the time I joined when Fijay probably was still new in the guild. Fijay had a pair of ilvl226 boots and Zahn a pair of ilvl258 boots when the tank boots from healing boss dropped (ilvl264). Fijay asked Zahn to pass but he didn't. Zahn got the boots.

A couple of weeks ago when the ilvl 277 boots finally dropped I asked Zahn to pass since I knew he was going to bid and I didn't have enough dkp to outbid him and I told him they where BiS. we both had the lower version (ilvl 264 boots, the one he bought over Fijay). But I was simply told no sorry.

Yes, I guess we could argue all night who deserves them the most, I should have saved dkp, zahn is a better tank than me, more active, or whatever reason we may come up with. But I think we all can agree that everyone doesn't always pass loots for someone's mainspecc.

awaiting the flames for this post now

I might say that this is not to spit on zahn. I like zahn, but that still doesn't make my point any less valid. I just hope he likes me as much to not hate me for this :O

I must say its about time this got changed, I have been tired of seeing ppl bidding 100dkp etc on offspec items, i'm usually just bidding 30-40 on offspec items and would gladly pass to anyone who would need it for main spec.
And i hope that isnt surprising that he would pass, greedy bastard is greedy.

OT: The benefit of this would be that the person using the parts most will get the parts first, and that can't be a bad thing.

Only real drawback that i can see is that people might collect up on sidegrades and stuff to balance there gear, and doing so on the mainspeccbidding and by doing so locks out everybody that might benefit as much or more from the said item, in a offspecc they might use frequently in raids (iponu/zahn/provoix etc)

I wrote about what I've seen and experienced myself, how in hell I would know what you whisper and decide with Zahn? I also never said that the new system was a bad thing. I said that I, personally, havent seen problems with the old system.


Even tho I quoted your post, my post wasnt meant straight to you, it was just an example. And I was talking about items in general, not only about tier tokens.

ofc I'd like u to have bis gear, my love